Par 2? in TanK's Tips Forum

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Par 2?

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Latowsky	Par 2?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 68 Jan 28 09 2:11 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Tank, This isn't a question about technique, but you're a pro and I wanted to know a pro's perspective on this. I went to Roper in Lincoln and there are a bunch of par 2s. I'm still a rec player overall, and mostly have played as one, but I have never seen par 2 holes at any course I've ever been to besides this one, and I've been to quite a few. I had to take a second look at the sign when I saw it...huh, par 2? Does the PDGA even recognize par 2, or has there ever been a par 2 in any PDGA-sanctioned tournament? I don't think it exists in ball golf. As (mostly) recs, my friends and I were kind of thrown off by this; we just went ahead and played the course at par 3 since most of the holes listed at par 2 were challenging enough to be 3s (hole 1 seems like it's a par 2, at least). During tournaments at Roper, are those holes listed at 2 played at par 2? Seems tough! May I dare say it seems silly!....
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Zeppo7513	Everything you wanted to know about par in disc golf... click here...	#1	[-]
Posts: 1202 Jan 28 09 12:18 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	http://nebdiscforums.yuku.com/topic/374?page=1 ... and see how deep the rabbit hole goes... Zeppo7513 _____________________________________ Leave the course cleaner than you found it.
BigChiz		#2	[-]
Posts: 7166 Jan 28 09 12:47 PM NebDisctator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ahhh... fresh blood for the great par 2 debate. Those are excellent questions Latowsky. Here is a quick summary. With the short tees, the course Scratch Scoring Average is 44 as measured by the PDGA tournament round in May 2006. That is 10 less than using the "every hole is par 3" method. On a clear day, with no wind, a disc golfer with a 1000 rating would expect to make the hole in two throws at Roper. In Maytag, IA, a course used at the PDGA World's a few years ago, some of the tees signs say par 2. The PDGA Rule Book uses this ambiguous definition for par. Par: As determined by the director, the score an expert disc golfer would be expected to make on a given hole. Par means errorless play under ordinary weather conditions, allowing two close range throws to hole-out. What does "par" mean to you?
treesarecutdown	Exorcise	#3	[-]
Posts: 3499 Jan 28 09 1:12 PM Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	No! no! Oh my god please no! Someone please cast this foul demon back to the bowels of hell! We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. George Bernard Shaw
Zeppo7513		#4	[-]
Posts: 1202 Jan 28 09 2:14 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Someone please cast this foul demon back to the bowels of hell! No! Not yet! Latowsky wants to hear a pro's perspective on this issue. So, until we find one, let's hear what TanK has to say. Zeppo7513 _____________________________________ Leave the course cleaner than you found it.
FlickThumber		#5	[-]
Posts: 529 Jan 28 09 4:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The Lincoln players play all the holes at Roper par 3, to answer that question. I've never glanced at the "great par debate" thread. Might have to do that.
Eminem4president		#6	[-]
Posts: 3364 Jan 28 09 4:40 PM Pillow Talker Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My comments cant be wrapped into one sitting session, Check the thread Chiz Posted and grab a cup of coffee and clear the calander... Champion Fecal Flipper
SIPNTHROED		#7	[-]
Posts: 1592 Jan 28 09 4:54 PM Am State Champ '07 Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Par 2 = a great excuse for a true par 66 course at Pioneers Park. Trolling those that deserve to be trolled. 29113
Zeppo7513	Please Don't Include Me	#8	[-]
Posts: 1202 Jan 28 09 8:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The Lincoln players play all the holes at Roper par 3, to answer that question. I'm a disc golfer who lives and plays in Lincoln. I do NOT play all holes at Max Roper as par 3. Zeppo7513 _____________________________________ Leave the course cleaner than you found it.
BigChiz		#9	[-]
Posts: 7166 Jan 28 09 8:51 PM NebDisctator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ditto that.
FlickThumber		#10	[-]
Posts: 529 Jan 28 09 9:46 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Zeppo7513 wrote: The Lincoln players play all the holes at Roper par 3, to answer that question. I'm a disc golfer who lives and plays in Lincoln. I do NOT play all holes at Max Roper as par 3. Sorry Kim. Most players, I should have said. I really can't believe I haven't played with you, Anita or Chiz yet, especially Chiz because I've seen him at leagues a few times. Last Edited By: FlickThumber Jan 28 09 9:49 PM. Edited 1 times.
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Red Ant		#11	[-]
Posts: 577 Jan 31 09 7:58 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	BigChiz wrote: The PDGA Rule Book uses this ambiguous definition for par. Par: As determined by the director, the score an expert disc golfer would be expected to make on a given hole. Par means errorless play under ordinary weather conditions, allowing two close range throws to hole-out. What does "par" mean to you? The way I understand this, would mean that any given course would recognize par 3 as the minimum for any given hole. Two close range throws would indicate upshots or putts, a drive would not be consider amongst these 2 throws.
chordprof		#12	[-]
Posts: 428 Jan 31 09 8:49 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	but would you consider hole 17 a "drive", especially now? I'm against par 2, but I like feeding the fire. You don't need a great drive to get a bird!
SIPNTHROED		#13	[-]
Posts: 1592 Jan 31 09 9:30 PM Am State Champ '07 Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just face the facts, there would be no discussion for par two's if Roper was redesigned and turned into a modern day 18 hole course. In doing so we would also benefit the use of 9 baskets that would work great at another park for closer, rec style holes. Trolling those that deserve to be trolled. 29113
Eminem4president		#14	[-]
Posts: 3364 Feb 1 09 12:16 PM Pillow Talker Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	SIPNTHROED wrote: Just face the facts, there would be no discussion for par two's if Roper was redesigned and turned into a modern day 18 hole course. In doing so we would also benefit the use of 9 baskets that would work great at another park for closer, rec style holes. TThe post of 2009, so far! Champion Fecal Flipper
BigChiz		#15	[-]
Posts: 7166 Feb 2 09 8:31 AM NebDisctator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There was a plan to move 9 baskets over to the east side to let part of the west recover. The LFDC seems to be gaining some momentum, maybe we can git'r done this spring?
BigChiz		#16	[-]
Posts: 7166 Feb 2 09 8:32 AM NebDisctator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There was a plan to move 9 baskets over to the east side to let part of the west recover. The LFDC is gaining momentum, and the creek work on the east side is complete. Let's get'r done this spring!
vwkeepontruckin		#17	[-]
Posts: 2700 Feb 7 09 5:32 PM Frisbee Freak Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	chordprof wrote: but would you consider hole 17 a "drive", especially now? I'm against par 2, but I like feeding the fire. Are you on a teepad? *Frisbee Freaks Unite!*
MattMo		#18	[-]
Posts: 131 Feb 7 09 7:04 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	vwkeepontruckin wrote: Are you on a teepad? Up until the point where your feet leave the ground after your jump putt. Last Edited By: MattMo Feb 7 09 7:06 PM. Edited 1 times.
jeff cyr	Par 2	#19	[-]
Posts: 571 Feb 7 09 9:47 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This argument is summed up with how one defines par. Argument one which I agree with. (Golf) The number of strokes required for a hole or a round played without mistake, two strokes being allowed on each hole for putting. Disc golf par is at least one drive allowing for two close shots. Minimum being par 3. Argument two which looks more at the definition of "par" than it does golf par. Sports The number of golf strokes considered necessary to complete a hole or course in expert play. Par as a definition by itself is a standard of excelence. When a hole averages a score of 2 by pro golfers the hole should be listed as a par two. After this point the argument gets stubborn, insulting, silly and booring. People get hard headed and never budge with their opinions. I'm talking about myself as much as any one else. But since I like to argue and I still believe I can change peoples minds, I will make a few more points. Unless you ignore "two strokes being allowed on each hole for putting." and substitute it with some arbitrary, 'two close shots' or 'throwing your putter is putting' par two is wrong headed. I have played all the par two holes in Lincoln and I never was allowed two putting strokes to complete the hole. We can get into this silly arguement about since a pro will throw a putter from the tee box it is a putt. However in regular golf you can drive with a putter yet it doesn't make it a putt because of how hard one swings the putter. I would define a putt as a throw not requireing your body to twist. The reality is that some people choose to ignore "two strokes being allowed on each hole for putting." So either suck it up and deal with the par 2s in Lincoln or ignore the signs outside of tournament play and call them par 3s. Unfortunately par is set by the course designer and/or tournament director. Omaha is no better really, nothing like a 100 foot straight ahead par 4. I ignore the signs at Seymore and Lincoln as do most every one else. PS. Par 3 at Seymore is 54 where sign par is 68 a difference of 14. However if Seymore were to allow "two strokes being allowed on each hole for putting." and define putting as a throw not requrering your body to twist. The course would be around 55 - 57 with the long pin placements. Hole 4, 7 and 12. I'm sure now everybody will agree with me. LOL More vinyl music than you can possibly imagine.
lilmendy33		#20	[-]
Posts: 336 Feb 10 09 2:42 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I say par 2 is where you get 2 throws to make it in the basket... who's with me!!!
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